Talk: Grand Alliance Army Ranks and Posts

New Ranks & Insignia

I've been working on a bunch of Army rank insignia to go along with the GAN SRIs I made. Originally I was planning on using them for when I write up an interpretation of the Stormwind Army ranks, but I decided to put them up here incase you want to use them for the GAA ranks. So without further ado, here they are:

Enlisted
Rank Insignia	n/a
Rank Name	Recruit	Private	Private First Class	Corporal	Sergeant	Master Sergeant
Alternant Name	n/a	Trooper/ Gunner	Knight	Brigadier	Gunnery Sergeant	Master Gunnery Sergeant
IRL American Equivalent	Private (Recruit)	Private	Private First Class	Corporal	Sergeant	Staff Sergeant
IRL British Equivalent	Private	Private	Lance Corporal	Corporal	n/a	Sergeant
IRL NATO Rank Equivalent	OR-1	OR-2	OR-3	OR-4	OR-5	OR-6

Enlisted
Rank Insignia
Rank Name	Sergeant Major	Regimental Sergeant Major	Brigade Sergeant Major	Sergeant Major of the Army
Alternant Name(s)	Gunnery Sergeant Major	First Sergeant	Command Sergeant Major	Army Sergeant Major
IRL American Equivalent	Sergeant First Class	Master/First Sergeant	Sergeant Major/Command Sergeant Major	Sergeant Major of the Army
IRL British Equivalent	Colour Sergeant	Warrant Officer Class 2	Warrant Officer Class 1	Army Sergeant Major
IRL NATO Rank Equivalent	OR-7	OR-8	OR-9

Officers
Rank Insignia
Rank Name	Ensign	Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant	Captain
Alternant Name	Third Lieutenant/Cornet	Sub-Lieutenant/Under-Lieutenant	Knight-Lieutenant	Knight-Captain
IRL American Equivalent	Officer Candidate	Second Lieutenant	Lieutenant	Captain
IRL British Equivalent	Officer Cadet	Second Lieutenant	First Lieutenant	Captain
IRL NATO Rank Equivalent	OF(D)	OF-1	OF-2

Officers
Rank Insignia
Rank Name	Major	Lieutenant Commander	Commander	High Commander
Alternant Name	Knight-Champion/Captain Major	Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel	Colonel-Commandant
IRL American Equivalent	Major	Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel	n/a
IRL British Equivalent	Major	Lieutenant Colonel	Colonel	Brigadier/Colonel-Commandant
IRL NATO Rank Equivalent	OF-3	OF-4	OF-5	OF-6

Officers
Rank Insignia
Rank Name	Marshal	Lord Marshal	Field Marshal	High Marshal	Grand Marshal
Alternant Name	Brigadier General	Major General/Sergeant Major General	Lieutenant General	General/Captain General	High General
IRL American Equivalent	Brigadier General	Major General	Lieutenant General	General	General of the Army
IRL British Equivalent	Brigadier General	Major General	Lieutenant General	General	Field Marshal
IRL NATO Rank Equivalent	OF-6	OF-7	OF-8	OF-9	OF-10

Rank Symbols:

• Pips: I based these on the Bath Stars used by the British Army, for non-human armies or some regiments/brigades of the GAA, they would probably be replaced by something else. (Eg. Glaives in the case of the Night Elves, arrows in the case of the High Elves, Roses for Gilneas)
• Lion's Head: Based on the Stormwind flag and Coat of Arms. Again, for non-Stormwindian armies or some regiments/brigades it would probably be replaced by something else. (Eg. Two-headed eagle for Lordaeron, wolf's Head for Gilneas, hammer for Ironforge, owl's head for Night Elves and Tol Barad, swooping hawk for Stromgarde/Arathor, anchor for Kul Tiras, eye for Dalaran)
• Wreath: Based on the Field Marshal's wreath used by the British Army

Colours:

Like with the rank symbols, the blue, red and gold would probably be modified for non-Stormwindian armies.

Examples:

• Night Elves: Blue and red become purple, gold becomes silver.
• Gilneas: Blue becomes black, red becomes navy blue
• Kul Tiras: Blue and red become green
• Lordaeron: Blue becomes white, red becomes blue

If you want, I could make some other versions for pages like the Gilnean Army.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 08:09, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

Wow.  I really like these!

Varadu (talk) 08:21, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

That's great! I've gone through and made some minor updates to the chevrons, they don't look like cardboard cutouts anymore. Going to do the same for the Midshipman-Commander GAN insignia as well.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 08:45, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

Ah alright.  For the GAN ones, go ahead and replace em' yourself on the GAN page if you'd like.

Varadu (talk) 08:49, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

Rank Revamp

I had some more ideas for a slight revamp to the rank system to bring it in-line with the GAN rank revamp we did. It uses the same "Six Group" style that the GAN now uses:

• General/Marshal Officers
• Command/Senior Officers
• Junior Officers
• Sergeants Major/Warrant Officers
• Sergeants/Senior Enlisted
• Junior Enlisted

​The officer ranks are mostly unchanged except for insignias, while the enlisted NCO got some more major revamps. Due to not having the insignias made yet, I'll use the Rostkammyr Military ones as an example.

General Officers

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Grand Marshal	High General	O-13	Standard Marshal Insignia with four pips/stars	Field Marshal
High Marshal	General	O-12		General
Field Marshal	Lieutenant General	O-11		Lieutenant General
Lord Marshal	Major General	O-10		Major General
Marshal	Brigadier General	O-9		Brigadier General

Senior Officers

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
High Commander	Colonel Commandant	O-8		Brigadier
Commander	Colonel	O-7		Colonel
Lieutenant Commander	Lieutenant Colonel	O-6		Lieutenant Colonel
Major		O-5		Major

Junior Officers

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Captain		O-4		Captain
Lieutenant	First Lieutenant	O-3		Lieutenant
Sub-Lieutenant	Second Lieutenant	O-2		Second Lieutenant
Ensign	Third Lieutenant	O-1		Officer Cadet

Sergeants Major

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Sergeant Major of the Army		E-12	Sergeant Major Insignia with four pips/stars	Sergeant Major of the Army
Chief Sergeant Major	Chief Staff Sergeant Major	E-11		Corps NCO
First Sergeant Major	First Staff Sergeant Major	E-10		Brigade NCO
Sergeant Major	Staff Sergeant Major	E-9		Regiment NCO

Senior Enlisted

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Chief Sergeant	Chief Staff Sergeant	E-8		Battalion NCO
Master Sergeant	First Staff Sergeant	E-7		Company NCO
Sergeant	Staff Sergeant	E-6		Platoon C.O/X.O
Master Corporal	Staff Corporal	E-5		Master Corporal

Junior Enlisted

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Corporal	Brigadier	E-4		Corporal
Private First Class	Lance Corporal	E-3		Lance Corporal
Private		E-2		Private
Recruit		E-1	No Insignia	Recruit

For Officer insignia, the Raven on the examples is replaced by a Lion for the standard GAA, with national symbols for other kingdoms. Likewise the star is replaced by a pip. For Enlisted insignia, the raven is replaced by the unit branch symbol, Eg. Crossed swords for Infantry, Crossed cannon for Artillery, Lion for Cavalry, Anchor for Marines, Quills for Logistics, etc. Colours on both are also changed depending on nation, with the standard GAN insignia replacing the red with blue and the silver with gold.

As always, feedback is appreciated.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 07:56, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

These are really good, actually.  One thing, though.  Something about the senior enlisted insignias seems off to me.  I think it's the stars on the bar, I feel like adding more bars opposed to putting stars on the single bar would look better.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 08:26, June 12 (Sunday), 2016 (UTC)

This is what they start to look like with additional bars, personally I thought they started to get rather long and clunky, because once you get to Sergeant Major of the army you're going to have five bars.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 08:31, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Mm, those would work then.

Could you mail me a PP template sometime for these?

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 08:40, June 12 (Sunday), 2016 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try and get it through to you in the next few hours.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 08:44, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, thanks.  Take your time though :)

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 08:47, June 12 (Sunday), 2016 (UTC)

I sent the template. And I should have the new insignias done in the next few hours.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 09:33, June 12, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good.  Thank you again for all the work you do for the GAA/GAN stuff.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 09:53, June 12 (Sunday), 2016 (UTC)

Question

Just wondering, is the note about Commanders of the Stormwind Army really relevant to the GAA fanon? Because it shouldn't really matter if you do RBGs or not in roleplay.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 09:11, June 13, 2016 (UTC)

It isn't really, I'll remove it.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 09:34, June 13 (Monday), 2016 (UTC)

Hey, so I decided to play with the enlisted insignias, and made these alternate versions, and was wondering what you thought (these are in Redrock colors but they could be changed ofc).

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Sergeant Major of the Army		E-12		Sergeant Major of the Army
Chief Sergeant Major	Chief Staff Sergeant Major	E-11		Corps NCO
First Sergeant Major	First Staff Sergeant Major	E-10		Brigade NCO
Sergeant Major	Staff Sergeant Major	E-9		Regiment NCO

Senior Enlisted

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Chief Sergeant	Chief Staff Sergeant	E-8		Battalion NCO
Master Sergeant	First Staff Sergeant	E-7		Company NCO
Sergeant	Staff Sergeant	E-6		Platoon C.O/X.O
Master Corporal	Staff Corporal	E-5		Master Corporal

Junior Enlisted

Rank		Pay Grade	Insignia	Real Life Equivalent
Corporal	Brigadier	E-4		Corporal
Private First Class	Lance Corporal	E-3		Lance Corporal
Private		E-2		Private
Recruit		E-1	No Insignia	Recruit

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 02:43, June 15 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC)

To be honest I don't really like the look of the ones without the bottom bar. However, we could probably change it so they start with a bar at the bottom and at an extra one for certain ranks. (So what you've done just with an extra bar for each). How does that sound?

Vannesira Smith (talk) 08:14, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Sure, that sounds good.  I agree that the ones without the bar look a little off.

I'll post the updated versions in a moment, give me a sec.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 08:32, June 15 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC)

I've updated the insignia, Chief Sergeant got changed slightly and Army Sergeant Major may be redone with a unique insignia tomorrow if I get the time.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 10:53, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Mm, those look good.

Mind sending me the update .pptx whenever you have time?

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 11:23, June 15 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC)

Updated template is sent.

Vannesira Smith (talk) 07:08, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

Recieved.  Thanks :)

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user talk)} 07:14, June 17 (Friday), 2016 (UTC)

High Commander

A bit ago I started thinking about something - regarding Halford Wyrmbane and his High Commander status.  I'd like to preface that this has nothing to do with the Gilnean High Commander, but rather the Seventh Legion High Commander - Wyrmbane.

The interpretation that we initially went with was that all High Commanders were ranked above Commander and below Marshal - which, by the sounds of the name, seems pretty correct.

However, Wyrmbane seems to have command over General Arlos in the 7th Legion/Valiance Expedition - and Generals = Marshals, which leads me to the possibility that perhaps in the 7th Legion context, High Commander means something far different; perhaps a position synonymous with commanding officer and Wyrmbane actually holds the authority of someone like a Field Marshal (or maybe higher).

In addition, the past guild The Seventh Vanguard (this is obviously fanon; but just throwing this out) - an IC unit of the Seventh Legion - was led by a PC Grand Marshal.

Thoughts?

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user page; talk page) 16:49, August 17 (Wednesday), 2016 (UTC)}

Honestly, I don't think the Valiance Expedition was part of the 7th Legion, considering neither group appeared to operate together and they have completely different uniforms (the 7th has the bronze coloured armour while the Valiance units wear standard Stormwind armour).

Vannesira Smith (talk) 02:08, August 18, 2016 (UTC)

In my opinion, I think that the 7th Legion could be apart of them, or at least the members of the 7th that were/are deployed to Northrend during the WotLK war, serving as the most "elite" sect/unit of the Expedition.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user page; talk page) 03:09, August 18 (Thursday), 2016 (UTC)}

Alternatively the 7th Legion could operate under their own rank structure since I imagine they belong to no specific service and work more as marines. That's just the way I view it anyway (Consider 7th Legion paratroopers for example).

Admiral Ranets Daggerfang (talk) 05:57, August 18, 2016 (UTC)

That's always how I've seen it as too.

— Varadu (Jak) ^{(user page; talk page) 06:26, August 18 (Thursday), 2016 (UTC)}

While it's been a while since this issue was brought up, I'd like to bring it up again. Personally, I'd switch "High Commander" to "Colonel". This would take Wyrmbane off the list, but it would resolve the issue of Wyrmbane's rank authority by placing him on a different chain of command. Also, it's also supported by Colonel Kurzen, who was a Stormwind soldier.

Aeliren (talk) 20:39, December 11, 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I've always seen "Colonel" and "Lieutenant Colonel" as being alternate ranks for "Commander" and "Lieutenant Commander" (Much how Generals are the equivalents of Marshals).

In the case of removing "High Commander", I think it still might be a good idea. I would suggest replacing it with "Marshal-Commander", as in a Commander serving as a Marshal. (Much like how in the real world "Captain-Lieuenant" came from the fact that the holder was a Lieutenant serving as a Captain)

Thoughts?

Vannesira Smith (talk) 01:54, December 12, 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I see Wyrmbane as having a special post that would be higher than Field Marshal, because I see the 7th Legion as Stormwind's ampihibious infantry (similar to the French Troupes de Marine and the idea of having an army unit instead of a separate marine branch). So, we could just leave it as is or maybe remove Wyrmbane from this list? And I don't see an issue with adding an alternate title of "Marshal-Commander" if you do want.

And yeah, I agree that Colonel/Lieutenant Colonel = army Commander/Lieutenant Commander.

— Varadu (Jak) (user page; talk page) 02:37, December 12 (Tuesday), 2017 (UTC)